Sections 3 & 4 Catcher in the Rye: points and perspectives
For this blog post, respond to someone's comments in class or talk about ideas for your research essay.
So what do YOU think? In class some of us expressed that the ending was a bit too abrupt. Some voiced their interest in looking at the ducks as a central symbol. Others said that Holden's confusion is what is most important about the book--a sort of focusing on like Mr. Antolini said, Holden's terrible fall, into depression and mental breakdown. Some said the scene when Phoebe and Holden talk about being a catcher in the rye is significant. Maybe you think the carousel scene shows his change. Or, maybe you just want to respond to what someone said in class. Whatever you want to say, just say it.
Labels: the end is the beginning
posted by dr. dalili @ 12:30 PM
17 Comments:
I think that the ducks are an important part of the book. I think Holden compares himself to the ducks (if he knows it or not) and is searching for a place to go in a world he doesn't fit in. He asks about the ducks because he is looking for a place to go and could be trying to take example from the ducks. The ducks leave for the winter which would be a change. Holden has trouble with change and the ducks leaving is a hard concept for Holden. And like the ducks leaving seasonally, Holden removes himself from his current habitat (school) often. Holden always returns, as do the ducks. The ducks represent Holden and his journey to adulthood or a different place.
I think that Holden's contradictions are an important part of the story. Whenever Holden is in a high point of depression he continuiously contradicts himself by the way of his words and actions. Because Holden is not mentally sain, he has no idea about what is going on in his life. He is a hypocrit. For example, Holden is always bringing up that "the goddam movies can ruin you."(104) What is contradicting about this is that in the scene of the boook when Maurice punched him in the gut he decides to pretend he is in a movie and shoots Maurice. These contradictions are occurences that lead the reader to believe that Holden is going is not mentally stable.
I think that the museum is an important part of the story. Holden needs something in his life that is stable or always stays the same. In chapter 16 Holden describes the museum and tells how nothing ever moved and he likes things to be that way. He isnt caught up in life yet, I think Holden needs things to slow down so he can catch up. The museum seems to slow things down since everything always stays the same and he knows were everything is. With everything changing Holden doest have stability in his life and he seems to be behind but the museum provides that aspect. In the museum he seems more relaxed and calm because nothing is changing.
I think the depression and confusion of Holden is significant. Holden being confused is the reason he keeps flunking out of schools because he doesn't have an idea of what he wants to do with his life so he doesn't feel the need to try in school. Him always needing to talk to people and call old friends shows he is lonely and depressed and needs other people to take his mind off of the real world and also needs them to help guide and support him. After he leaves one place he doesn't like, he is still confused and doesn't know what to do with his life. That is why he keeps on calling his old friends and remembering the past because after he leaves, he still isn't pleased with what he is doing and he missed the past. At the end at the carousel he even admits he realizes he misses the past. The ducks are also significant because since he doesn't know where to go after he doesn't likea place anymore, so once the enviroment isn't good for the ducks anymore,he figures they have to leave to. He always leaves when a place doesn't suit him anymore too but he never knows where to go. So maybe by knowing where the ducks go, that could help him know where to go. At the end he finally realizes he s content with his life and doesn't need to run away. He has good friends and family where he is right now and he doesn't want toleave them. So he will keep on going from school to school where his old friends and family are until he finds a place he likes.
I also think the ending was too abrupt. It didn't give me a conclusive feeling. Holden should've told how he ended up at a mental hospital. Also, I feel that the last page was a bad effort to end the story. Like Colin said, I feel that the author should've slowly transitioned into the ending.
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I know we've said it in class once or twice, but I really do believe Holden is similar to Michael Jackson. Holden's childhood and innocence was broken early, like Michael Jackson's. Because of the death of his younger brother Holden was abruptly forced to face the real world at a young age. I think that is the reason Holden wants to prolong children's innocence. And that is the reason he gets all upset about the "F You's" and dirty people. Michael Jackson grew up too fast because of his child star career and once he was older he wanted to focus on prolonging children's childhood and innocence. I believe that is the same situation going on with Holden and essentially the reason Holden's dream job is to become the "catcher in the rye." He wants to "come out from somewhere and catch them" (173). I think he wants to "catch" them from falling into growing up. Michael Jackson had these same intentions and that is why I do believe Holden and Michael Jackson are extremely similar.
For the catcher in the rye, i thought the carousel scene symbolizes change. Not only the carousel but Phoebe on the carousel. I think Phoebe is the only person that makes Holden truly happy. By her being on the carousel, I feel he was realizing his happiness and embracing it. Once it started raining, most people would rush under the roof of the carousel, but not Holden. Again, Holden was embracing. Holden was embracing the fact that he was truly happy. Everyone knows after a good rain storm, sunshine and rainbows always comes after. So by it raining, the rain washes away all of Holden's negativity and in the end will only leave a positive, happy attitude. I thought the book was really good, but at the same time I thought it had no real plot line. Other than that, the book was great and JD Salinger did an awesome job, writing this story.
Strangely, I think the rain at the end of the book helps symbolize the change found Holden. Rain, being water, represents purification which could easily be linked to children and the idea of innocence. When it begins to rain and all the other parents of the kids on carousel look for refuge, Holden stays in the rain. It's almost this moment represents him tying up the lose of ends of his childhood, and him learning to cope with himself. While the others try and hide from this "purification" because they are already adults and part of being an adult is letting go of the past; Holden is learning to let his anguish go and grow up. I believe that this moment he is beginning to understand that he cannot mope about the past forever and he must move on.
Honestly, this is probably my favorite book that we have read so far this year. I was really interested in seeing what Holdens next move was going to be. Obvioulsy Holden is an upset and lonely boy. Most people would try and make friends with anybody at that point because he needs someone to make him feel better. But instead, it almost seems like Holden is pushing away from people. The only thing i didn't like about this book was how it eneded. I really wanted to know whats Holden's future was going to look like, except, he shut us down from knowing and left the reader wondering.
Honestly, this is probably my favorite book that we have read so far this year. I was really interested in seeing what Holdens next move was going to be. Obvioulsy Holden is an upset and lonely boy. Most people would try and make friends with anybody at that point because he needs someone to make him feel better. But instead, it almost seems like Holden is pushing away from people. The only thing i didn't like about this book was how it eneded. I really wanted to know whats Holden's future was going to look like, except, he shut us down from knowing and left the reader wondering.
In the last chapters of Catcher in the Rye, Holden’s thoughts start to come together. He tries all different ways of running away from his problems like going to New York, or getting drunk, or getting a prostitute, or even moving out to somewhere in Vermont. (However, he only thought about moving to Vermont and never actually did it). When none of these really worked, he started to try to find what was wrong with him. He went to the lake where he thought about Allie, and he realized that he should go talk to Phoebe, the only person he still likes. When he’s at Phoebe’s house (his house too), he tells Phoebe about how he wants to catch people in the rye because he likes Allie and the kids who fall off the cliff are like Allie. But Holden realizes that the only thing that Phoebe is doing is making Holden feel better. He still needs some guidance, so he goes to Mr. Antolini for more help. Holden tells Mr. Antolini about his Oral Expression class where he did not like that going off topic was not allowed. Mr. Antolini gives some advice to Holden about riding for a fall and how Holden has just begun looking for what he is looking for. Mr. Antolini and Holden in this conversation are opposing each other in viewpoints, and they help set each other back on track (mostly for Holden). When Holden meets up again with Phoebe and Phoebe rides the carousel, Holden thinks again about what Mr. Antolini says, and he figures that he is like that kids that fall off the carousel and he just has to get up by himself, get back on, and keep reaching for that gold ring. By the end of the book, Holden discovers that it is okay that Allie’s dead – things like that happen. Besides, Holden will get to see his sister grow up. Catcher in the Rye is a very interesting and meaningful book once you really get deep into it, and if you do, it can really teach you a good lesson.
I think the nuns are a symbol of Holdens innocent and good side which we dont see to often. He helped someone in need and did a positive thing and you do not see that to often. I agree with Daria that the ending deffinatly left the reader wonder and i didnt really like that and i really want to know about his future too. But over all i thought the book was good.
Holden's just a creepy kid with deep physiological problems that's for sure I don't see him as a significant member of society just one of those weird people with deep deep physiological problems
I think that the ducks are a really important part of the story because he constantly brings them up and is constantly asking where they go. I think that he is relating himself to the ducks and that is why they mean so much to him.
I think that the ducks are very important but at the same time a huge distraction for Holden.It seems that his quest to find a way to compare himself to ducks makes him crazy in the end. As important that they are its hard for me not to lean back and say wow, this guy is comparing himself to ducks... there is something very wrong with him.
I think that Salinger should have extended the ending just far enough so that readers could see how Holden interacts with his family. And more specifically his father. I don't think the ending was long enough and I think it should have been more detailed. The book ended way to fast. But overall I liked the book. I can see why it is considered and American classic. The book was one of the better ones that i have read in my life
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